The Slow Burning Fuse

an atheisitic anarchistic scorcher www.facebook.com/TheSlowBurningFuse

socialism without freedom

Advertisements

6 comments on “socialism without freedom

  1. acephalist
    August 20, 2012

    So the question is whether socialism and individual autonomy are compatible?

    • copasetic64
      August 20, 2012

      It depends what you term as socialism. If it is the twisted authoritarian version developed by Lenin and Stalin then yes, but if it is the kind advocated where the people run the world themselves then no. To me socialism means common ownership of the means of production without a centralised state. tate socialism is merely swapping one master for another, in effect it is state capitalism.

      • acephalist
        August 21, 2012

        From my point of view the means of production are tools of the state, so I’m thinking we would want to abolish them rather than own them. Granted that brings up a whole new set of questions such as how would such a highly populated world survive without the tools of modern industry, but I think that is a question worth exploring. 🙂

  2. copasetic64
    August 21, 2012

    I get what you’re saying, but when i talk of the means of production I’m just loosely referring to how wealth is created,and by that I merely mean the things we create to live. I guess what I’m saying is that I believe in the old adage that from each according to their ability and to each according to their need. I agree that all tools of state should be abolished, but i offer no remedy further than that. I consider that the post-capitalist co-operative world would emerge out of the revolutionary changes that brought it into being and I’m no visioniary in terms of what the rest of mankind would want, and I guess modern tools of industry can be put to use in an egalitarian way.

    • acephalist
      August 22, 2012

      I guess I disagree with “from each according to their ability and to each according to their need.” To me it seems it is an idea born out of Capitalist Democracy that defines people by their social roles. I would prefer to create a world where I am able to create my own happiness as I see fit and where others are allowed to do the same. My worry is the socialist idea of “from each according to their ability and to each according to their need.” would force me – by compulsory work and compulsory morality, to be a laboring slave for the new system.

      I think we want more or less the same thing, we are just coming at it from different directions.

      • copasetic64
        August 22, 2012

        i can see how it can be interpreted in an authoritarian manner, but the saying originally came from Proudhon, considered the father of anarchism by Bakunin and Kroptkin. Proudhon was certainly no authoritarian and was against the state in all its forms.

        In later years proudhon did recognise that there could be an an element of compulsion attached to the statement and I think he used the example of something along the line of a situation whereby you think you can only give 90% but I think you can give 100% would lead to strife. However I believe that because the post-capitalist would have been bought about by an enlightened working class then such matters would be got over.

        I like to interpret the phrase as meaning:
        from each according to their ability=no-one is forced to do what they can’t or don’t want to do, but the naturally abilities and innate sense of mutual aid will ensure all work that needs to doing will be done freely;
        and-each according to their need= In a free state where there is plenty freely available for everyone, surely people will only take what they need, what’s the point of building up enormous stores of wealth, and society will be enlightened enough to ensure that those who are unable to contribute will be fully looked after with no demands made. This will be an egalitarian society not a competitive one.

        I agree with you that ultimately we are on the same side, and I don’t think we are particularly coming from different directions either.

        Cheers

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Information

This entry was posted on August 12, 2012 by in anarchy, cartoons, politics and tagged , , , .
%d bloggers like this: